[Hitomi] Match Up Discussion - Demo

Just a match up chart for Hitomi and how she fares against other characters in the demo. 5-5 match up indicates even/no advantage for either character, 6-4 means advantage, and so on. Hopefully we can get some discussion on this and maybe make it a bit more accurate. It's only been a week and I'm sure I've overlooked a lot, not to mention that there will be new tech discovered that will likely obsolete my current notes.

Hitomi vs Ayane
6 - 4

Ayane is easily punished and lacks threatening mix ups, and as a result rush down Ayane is dead. Any Ayane player who comes charging after Hitomi is straight up going to lose. Hitomi's approach to this style should be to just block, properly punish and start her own pressure game. Ayane gets guaranteed damage off her back throw which Hitomi needs to respect, and since Hitomi has such a great selection of safe/frame advantage moves you shouldn't need to randomly be throwing out unsafe attacks.

Smart Ayane players will try to zone/bait Hitomi to move in towards her and make a mistake. On paper, Hitomi's best approach options are from full screen dashing (mid), dashing (high), or (grab). Two of those options are unsafe, and one is a grab. Realistically two of those just knock Ayane back to full screen and reset the guessing game, and at best into a danger zone (which is pretty sweet, I guess.) Playing footsies and slowly moving in will give Hitomi more, better options while reducing Ayane's. You can also attempt to bait out an attack (You should be able to react and block most of her strings) and punish. Once Hitomi gets on the offensive from close range, Ayane doesn't have many great options outside of . Hitomi's isn't 'really' helpful in this match up since Hitomi's and beat out a lot of Ayane's best mids anyway. Will still give Hitomi a 9 frame jab, should you decide to go that route.


Hitomi vs Hayabusa
6.5 - 3.5

- Hayabusa's biggest threats are mostly mids that Hitomi can beat out with and . Gives Hitomi +1 which traps Hayabusa and forces him to guess. Essentially in order to win Hayabusa needs to make God-like reads while Hitomi can use mix ups after . Footsies are also in Hitomi's favor.

Hayabusa's damage output from combos exceeds hers, but once she gets on him the match is essentially over. Don't give Hayabusa anything for free. His best avenue to deal damage to her is through Hitomi's mistakes. Hitomi will struggle if you try to trade combos with Hayabusa - your best bet is just to pressure and poke him to death and force him to counter. Hayabusa doesn't have many attacks that leave him with frame advantage, and Hitomi's best options are faster then his. You shouldn't have any issues stopping his pressure game and starting your own. Try to avoid being stunned. Having to guess between taking an Izuna drop or a full combo sucks. Otherwise, play a smart pressure game based off of and Hayabusa will be at her mercy.


Hitomi vs Hayate
6.5 - 3.5

- Theory fighter. Hayate's best options are seemingly beaten by Hitomi's parry. lets Hitomi keep pressure on him without much risk. Even when Hitomi is at disadvantage, Hayate has to guess/read what she's going to do in order to get damage in. Hitomi can bully him into not throwing punches, then use her or 13 frame mids to keep pressure on him. I don't have much much experience in this match up, but Hayate's tools don't seem especially useful against Hitomi. It seems pretty hopeless for him honestly, as he has lower damage output and has to take all the risks in order to generate damage.

Any thoughts/comments would be appreciated. I'm trying to make this as accurate as possible

Vs Ayane
Well, I would say that the match up for Hitomi v Ayane is 5.5 - 4.5 in Hitomi favour. The thing about ayane is that her mix ups are actually really good IMO. She is slightly weaker than Hitomi but she is indeed faster than Hitomi. So, in this match up, ayane needs to be on the move seeing how she is quite a speedy character in this game and it is her strengths as well. So for me, it would have to be 5.5 - 4.5 in Hitomi's favour.

Vs Hayabusa
I believe that this match up is a 6-4 in Hitomi's favour. Hayabusa game in this match up is to pressure Hitomi. He hasn't got as much mix ups then Ayane, but he still has some pretty good mix up that he has got. Hitomi's game in this match up is to pretty much pressure the hell out of Hayabusa. If the Hitomi player does do that, then the Hayabusa cold come up with something dangerous.

Vs Hayate
Hayate in the DOA5 demo has been nerfed quite bad. He isn't as good as he was in DOA4. Some of his really good moves has been taken away In the game so far. So, would say that the match up is 6-4 in Hitomi's favour for now.

Hurricane Rev wrote:

Vs Ayane
Well, I would say that the match up for Hitomi v Ayane is 5.5 - 4.5 in Hitomi favour. The thing about ayane is that her mix ups are actually really good IMO. She is slightly weaker than Hitomi but she is indeed faster than Hitomi. So, in this match up, ayane needs to be on the move seeing how she is quite a speedy character in this game and it is her strengths as well. So for me, it would have to be 5.5 - 4.5 in Hitomi's favour.

Vs Hayabusa
I believe that this match up is a 6-4 in Hitomi's favour. Hayabusa game in this match up is to pressure Hitomi. He hasn't got as much mix ups then Ayane, but he still has some pretty good mix up that he has got. Hitomi's game in this match up is to pretty much pressure the hell out of Hayabusa. If the Hitomi player does do that, then the Hayabusa cold come up with something dangerous.

Vs Hayate
Hayate in the DOA5 demo has been nerfed quite bad. He isn't as good as he was in DOA4. Some of his really good moves has been taken away In the game so far. So, would say that the match up is 6-4 in Hitomi's favour for now.

vs Ayane:

I could see Ayane going to 5.5 - 4.5 Hitomi's favor, but that's in a worst case scenario. Not sure what speed Ayane has that can beat out Hitomi's 13 frame mids (that become 12 after a low poke). Hitomi's jab matches are equal and become faster after just about any useful string, and the punch parry can shut down Ayane's fastest attacks. Ayane wants/needs to keep Hitomi off her to have any hope of winning - and the fact Hitomi has a higher damage output makes it that much worse for her. Do you have any specifics about moves or strats that could give Hitomi a difficult time that I might have missed?

vs Hayabusa:

I talked to Jefffcore about this match up extensively and we play tested for about 5-6 hours. From a Hitomi players perspective wanted to post it as 6-4. He said it was much worse then that, and we mutually agreed on 6.5 - 4.5 . He literally cannot do anything after Hitomi's god tech low poke (which, I don't think needs to be nerfed - or Hitomi for that matter). Any attack he has will lose to essentially anything Hitomi follows up with, so he either has to keep blocking or made amazing reads. You really don't want to be risking counters in this game, it isn't DOA4. If you counter incorrectly, your opponent can blow you up nicely. So he ends up just sitting there until the Hitomi player screws up.

vs Hayate:
Purely a "well, I think it would go like this because practicing against the AI sucks" sort of theory build for the match up. Based on what I've seen, it seems crappy for Hayate. It wasn't a good match up for him in DOA4, and it's even worse now. His damage output seems lower, he's slower, her parry stuffs any quick moves he might have... so what exactly is he supposed to do? Maybe someone could tell me. I honestly don't know the match up but on paper the deck seems stacked against him.

Is this based on human opponents or AI

I have experience against human Ayane and Hayabusa players. Hayate is just AI and pure theory. You can't really learn a ton playing against the AI. I would post the videos, but a) I never uploaded my set vs the Ayane player and b) I can't post videos here yet =P

It's really early/too early to really say that this is really accurate, just more of a starting point. Really won't know for sure till everything gets discovered and more experience offline/online

are you willing to test these therioes vs me and my ryu, ayane and hayate

as those are 3 of 4 main characters i use

AngryWorm wrote:

vs Ayane:

I could see Ayane going to 5.5 - 4.5 Hitomi's favor, but that's in a worst case scenario. Not sure what speed Ayane has that can beat out Hitomi's 13 frame mids (that become 12 after a low poke). Hitomi's jab matches are equal and become faster after just about any useful string, and the punch parry can shut down Ayane's fastest attacks. Ayane wants/needs to keep Hitomi off her to have any hope of winning - and the fact Hitomi has a higher damage output makes it that much worse for her. Do you have any specifics about moves or strats that could give Hitomi a difficult time that I might have missed?

Well, there are quite a few moves that I can think that could give Hitomi trouble. One of the moves is Ayane's back , which is actually a good move. Although, I don't think it is faster than some of Hitomi's pokes but it has got quite a longer range than some of Hitomi's pokes. It is pretty much all about spacing in this match up. Another that Ayane's has got is 4:k: , which is a good long range move and that might give Hitomi some trouble.

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vs Hayabusa:

I talked to Jefffcore about this match up extensively and we play tested for about 5-6 hours. From a Hitomi players perspective wanted to post it as 6-4. He said it was much worse then that, and we mutually agreed on 6.5 - 4.5 . He literally cannot do anything after Hitomi's god tech low poke (which, I don't think needs to be nerfed - or Hitomi for that matter). Any attack he has will lose to essentially anything Hitomi follows up with, so he either has to keep blocking or made amazing reads. You really don't want to be risking counters in this game, it isn't DOA4. If you counter incorrectly, your opponent can blow you up nicely. So he ends up just sitting there until the Hitomi player screws up.

Ahh, I see. Well, this match up so far does seem quite bad for Hayabusa, which is very good to see lool. But I am guessing that Hayate isn't the only person that has been nerfed in doa5 so far then. Hayabusa is slightly slower than how is was in DOA4.

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vs Hayate:
Purely a "well, I think it would go like this because practicing against the AI sucks" sort of theory build for the match up. Based on what I've seen, it seems crappy for Hayate. It wasn't a good match up for him in DOA4, and it's even worse now. His damage output seems lower, he's slower, her parry stuffs any quick moves he might have... so what exactly is he supposed to do? Maybe someone could tell me. I honestly don't know the match up but on paper the deck seems stacked against him.

I am not sure what Hayate has to offer in this match up to be honest. I may have to learn him this week and see what the match ups is like for him at Wathamstow Versus.

Thunderninja02 wrote:

are you willing to test these therioes vs me and my ryu, ayane and hayate

as those are 3 of 4 main characters i use

Yep. I am very confident in the notes regarding the Hayabusa match up because I've tested it for so long against another high level player offline. It shouldn't matter who the players for the theories to work, it "should" be as unbias and accurate as possible otherwise it's pretty useless.

Ayane still needs to be explored a bit more. It's clearly in Hitomi's favor, the only real debatable part is by how much.

Hayate... honestly at this point it's just a shot in the dark. Until I play a human Hayate all I can do is really theory craft

Hurricane Rev wrote:

Well, there are quite a few moves that I can think that could give Hitomi trouble. One of the moves is Ayane's back , which is actually a good move. Although, I don't think it is faster than some of Hitomi's pokes but it has got quite a longer range than some of Hitomi's pokes. It is pretty much all about spacing in this match up. Another that Ayane's has got is 4:k: , which is a good long range move and that might give Hitomi some trouble.

Yep, the match up is all about keeping Hitomi out, and trying to beat Hitomi in a striking battle sounds pretty miserable in all honesty. Hitomi won't be too anxious to really start her pressure game until she's close enough that Ayane's longer ranged attacks aren't going to matter, and since Hitomi has really good mid screen options ( , , , , etc).

Outside of bait/punish/zone I don't think Ayane has much of a a lot of other options. She's too unsafe and I think it's significantly more difficult for her to keep Hitomi out for the entire fight then it is for Hitomi to get in once or twice. She has to work a lot harder to win then Hitomi does.

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vs Hayate:
I am not sure what Hayate has to offer in this match up to be honest. I may have to learn him this week and see what the match ups is like for him at Wathamstow Versus.

Let me know if you find anything out. Outside of maybe 30 minutes of watching Jefffcore checking stuff out with him I don't really know what he has. He seemed pretty weak in comparison to the other three though.

AngryWorm wrote:

Yep, the match up is all about keeping Hitomi out, and trying to beat Hitomi in a striking battle sounds pretty miserable in all honesty. Hitomi won't be too anxious to really start her pressure game until she's close enough that Ayane's longer ranged attacks aren't going to matter, and since Hitomi has really good mid screen options ( , , , , etc).

Outside of bait/punish/zone I don't think Ayane has much of a a lot of other options. She's too unsafe and I think it's significantly more difficult for her to keep Hitomi out for the entire fight then it is for Hitomi to get in once or twice. She has to work a lot harder to win then Hitomi does.

Yeah, You definitely do have to work alot more harder when you playing with Ayane than when you are playing with Hitomi. I do believe that Ayane is really good at baiting things and possibly good at punishing people but I agree that she is quite unsafe to use/play with.

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Let me know if you find anything out. Outside of maybe 30 minutes of watching Jefffcore checking stuff out with him I don't really know what he has. He seemed pretty weak in comparison to the other three though.

I will let you know what kind of stuffs he can do and he does seem weaker in this game so far.

Played a little with Jefffcore on the weekend and tested some Hitomi versus Hayabusa stuff in Dead or Alive 5. The match up might be even more one sided than we originally thought.

Hayabusa will try to keep Hitomi out (since he's pretty much toast if she gets in, but that's coming later). The best way for him to do this are with strategically timed leg sweep (I don't know the input, he kinda does a double leg kick... it's low and he's crouched while he's doing it... maybe a Hayabusa player knows what I'm taking about) OR his high high (I think it's just standing k). Unfortunately, both of those are out-ranged by Hitomi's and . So unless you have absurd/lucky timing, Hitomi can essentially rush down Hayabusa at will and not have to worry about being hit. The other option Hayabusa has is his sort of leg drop/jump attack, which you can jab out of on reaction (assuming you react better than I do) or can just power punch it and reset the guessing game.

Once Hitomi is on Hayabusa (and she'll get there sooner than later) his options become very limited. After he can't crush or . His jab loses to hers even without the +1 off her low jab (10 frames versus 11) and most of her best strings leave her at advantage. You could try to sidestep her attacks, but honestly side stepping seems mostly broken at this point, and while a majority of her attacks do not track, she has follow up options that do. It's entirely possible I just haven't figured out how to properly use the sidestepping mechanic, but it seems like a lot of players are struggling with it. So essentially, Hayabusa's only option here is to either block, counter, or try to jab his way out. From experience, jabbing out doesn't seem to work all that well, which leaves you with block and counter.

As for the original theory that Hayabusa can out damage Hitomi - well, he can, but it's not really by as much as people originally thought. Hitomi hits like a truck and has combos that are almost equally as dirty as his.

I'm thinking of pushing it to 7-3 for Hitomi, but it's possible that I'm overlooking something. Can anyone think of anything that makes Hayabusa competitive against her? To me it seems like she has him (and the other two for that matter, although that's still mostly just theories) beaten regardless of her position on the screen.

AngryWorm wrote:

I'm thinking of pushing it to 7-3 for Hitomi, but it's possible that I'm overlooking something. Can anyone think of anything that makes Hayabusa competitive against her? To me it seems like she has him (and the other two for that matter, although that's still mostly just theories) beaten regardless of her position on the screen.

i was playing with my friend, you like you is a serious hitomi player, and me a hayabusa,

we say that if the hayabusa player was good enough to block hitomis combos, because hayabusa has a far better throws and counters then hitomi, he can easily punish hitomi after blocking a combo by throwing....

also we find hitomi preditable at times... and again ryu has stronger counters, so that will give the hayabusa player some head-way

(yes ryu can be just as predictable,)

also ryu has a better varity of evasive moves, like this back flip and his teleports,

we think they are more even then is said.......

and because we use both characters, we cant be one-sided..=P

Thunderninja02 wrote:

i was playing with my friend, you like you is a serious hitomi player, and me a hayabusa,

we say that if the hayabusa player was good enough to block hitomis combos, because hayabusa has a far better throws and counters then hitomi, he can easily punish hitomi after blocking a combo by throwing....

also we find hitomi preditable at times... and again ryu has stronger counters, so that will give the hayabusa player some head-way

(yes ryu can be just as predictable,)

also ryu has a better varity of evasive moves, like this back flip and his teleports,

we think they are more even then is said.......

and because we use both characters, we cant be one-sided..=P

Why is the Hitomi player doing anything that leaves her at disadvantage? Not to mention the mix up potential she has far exceeds that of Hayabusa.

The damage output off Busa's grabs "is better" in terms of the utility, but without danger zones it isn't that much better than Hitomi's. Hitomi's mid kick counter is still beast. His 'evasion' is pretty much shut down once Hitomi gets on him as weird as that sounds.

it was just the combos and mix ups he was doing was a little easy too see,

his THROWS are better,

and most of his grabs are better, aside from a few of hers



but we both still think hitomi is better overall,

he to says 6-4, as do i